Curse

Amy Awien · Feb 26, 2011, 09:00 AM // 09:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by FyrFytr998

... Or even an Elite skill that summons all animals in the immediate area to your party's aid.

The return of the original Otyugh's Cry ... It wasn't even elite, and, if I remember correctly, had the secondary (primary) effect of increasing the AL of all allied pets ... and still nobody thought it was useful. The problem with wildlife is/was that their level is too low to have any meaningfull impact.

Quote:

... Make preparations on par with Rits spirit spamming.

/signed

some guy · Feb 26, 2011, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shriketalon

Monks: Worst energy management of any caster, terrible smiting prayers, and the only primary attribute in the game which offers no benefit to any secondary skills. Nothing in the Monk's arsenal can compare to Spirit Siphon, Lyssa's Aura/Power Drain, Signet of Lost Souls, or the way Soul Reaping lets Necromancers go “Lol, energy”. If other caster classes can be perfectly viable without relying on secondaries just to get by, the Monk should be able to manage his own energy without using other professions as a crutch. And while they do fine in the support category, Monks have very little diversity; smiting prayers are practically worthless except for a single elite and get no benefit from Divine Favor, and their primary attribute can't boost their signets, their offense, or any secondary/PvE only skills. Improving them a little would give monk players other things they can do.

Please learn to monk

miriforst · Feb 26, 2011, 03:49 PM // 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoyon456

Do you see any class running around performing a Ranger's role with a bow better than a Ranger? No, you do not.

Ehh not to start any trouble but ritualists and assasins makes better barragers than rangers, and thats one of the few "ranger roles with a bow" left. One of the main reasons you do not see as large abusage of bows as with scythes is that theres no reason to do it. Bows are weak except for interrupting in pvp where they really shine. Scythes had a potential crit damage that was insane and begged to be abused as well as the scythes passive "hit up to two other targets adjacent". Those two factors along with some of the dervish attacks being good but costly for the dervish led to an abusage of the weapon. Rangers haven't even got a reason to be abused outside of finding ranger spirits like EoE or winter on the teams monk or ritu.

I am surprised such a lot of people actually wan't the ranger to be next considering the previous campaigns on buffing the paragon that was going on at the same time as the dervish threads

I see no reason to really set my foot in pve as a ranger since AS nerf except maybe rolling my Beastmaster build but guys lets be real, they will never roll another skill update of importance. The amount of time this one took along with the fact that they probably won't give a brick about gw1 and focus on their new darling gw2.

We are the oldest child now and a there is a new kid in the familly. And our "parents" are going to focus every point of affection on it

Voodoo Rage · Feb 26, 2011, 04:26 PM // 16:26

How about an elite that lets you charm ANY animal you come across on the map and they immediately level up to the current level up to your existing pet. The number of animals you can have is limited by every 3 ranks of Beast Mastery. Too OP?

Bassma · Feb 26, 2011, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

What do you think needs balance now?

Nothing, play with what you got quit asking for more. As a famous president once said: "Ask not what Anet can do for you, but, what YOU can do for Anet"

Bassma · Feb 26, 2011, 05:09 PM // 17:09

A good ranger improvement would be to make preparations last 60 seconds with a 10 second recharge.

Also allow rangers to have more than one prepartion active at a time. That would put them back up there again. Oh and make Escape last 12 seconds.

Ugh · Feb 26, 2011, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

How about an elite that lets you charm ANY animal you come across on the map and they immediately level up to the current level up to your existing pet. The number of animals you can have is limited by every 3 ranks of Beast Mastery. Too OP?

That functionality wouldn't really fit with any of the BM elites. Strike as One and Rampage as one, maybe, but it'd be a stretch.

Something like:

Charm Animal (PvE)
10e 10c
Skill. Charm target animal. If you have an animal companion, this skill activates x% faster, and target animal travels with you. This skill is disabled.

would be fun, imo, especially if pet attacks applied to both pets.

Still used the same way to charm your legit pet, but now it doesn't turn useless as soon as you get one. Doesn't recharge on morale boost, so there's a max of two pets. PvE/PvP split removes the functionalities made redundant by Comfort buff, mostly just because the skill description would be long as hell. It would still buff the animal to the level of the pet, but I don't know how to word that in a non-awkward manner.

I don't see this happening, though. I don't expect any update to rangers, but if there is going to be one, it probably won't have complex functionality changes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassma

Oh and make Escape last 12 seconds.

Or make Escape give a 66% speed increase with no blocking. That'd be fun.

AndrewSX · Feb 26, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriforst

Ehh not to start any trouble but ritualists and assasins makes better barragers than rangers, and thats one of the few "ranger roles with a bow" left.

QFT...the only useful thing that Barrage can do is trigger weapon spells and physical buff effects. And i'm not talking about Splinter(it's just the most used): Warmonger or Great Dwarf(if duo playing) weapon + Barrage are impressive on balled casters.

Quote:

I see no reason to really set my foot in pve as a ranger since AS nerf except maybe rolling my Beastmaster build but guys lets be real, they will never roll another skill update of importance. The amount of time this one took along with the fact that they probably won't give a brick about gw1 and focus on their new darling gw2.

About next update i believe that also eles, wich needed a large rework, will be left underpowered as they are now and the ideas for fix them moved on GW2. Dervs could be the last real update(as Rit and Mez before) for this too old game.

miriforst · Feb 26, 2011, 06:16 PM // 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Or make Escape give a 66% speed increase with no blocking. That'd be fun.

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.

To have rangers as the fastest class would make sense, and with ranger melee gimmicks gone it wouldn't be as much pain to balance.

Ive though about something like "loose X hexes" to be added to the current escape to make it an actual escape.

Thematically Rangers are supposed to have nature on their side and thus strong vs spell casters and the unnatural. But they choosed to instead make them weak which ofc is logical but more ranger hex hate would be nice, elemental armor covers from elementalists and ritus.

But this function would be to escape only ofc to make it at least good at what it is made to be.

ensoriki · Feb 26, 2011, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriforst

To have rangers as the fastest class would make sense, and with ranger melee gimmicks gone it wouldn't be as much pain to balance.

Where in the Rangers concept did it tell you they had anything to do with speed? Oh wait it didn't, that's Assassins with their get in and get out philosophy hence Shadowsteps, and the skill Dash (now competing with Pious Haste).

All the Beast Mastery elites should make your pet come along, except Lacerate.
IMO Whenever you que a Pet attack, A) the pets current action is canceled or B) increase the pets attack speed 60% or something until the attack lands so that they can get those attack skills off properly when you want them to.
One of those should happen so the pet attacks go off when desired since Pet AI doesn't seem like it's going anywhere.

Traps should just be changed. One ranger shouldn't be able to place more than one of the same type of trap (2 barbed traps) within in the area range of one another. The individual traps should be improved. I don't think traps will ever be anything more than rather niche though which is fine.

Expertise should lower the recharge of nature spirits, legit.

miriforst · Feb 26, 2011, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Where in the Rangers concept did it tell you they had anything to do with speed? Oh wait it didn't, that's Assassins with their get in and get out philosophy hence Shadowsteps, and the skill Dash (now competing with Pious Haste).

All the Beast Mastery elites should make your pet come along, except Lacerate.
IMO Whenever you que a Pet attack, A) the pets current action is canceled or B) increase the pets attack speed 60% or something until the attack lands so that they can get those attack skills off properly when you want them to.
One of those should happen so the pet attacks go off when desired since Pet AI doesn't seem like it's going anywhere.

Traps should just be changed. One ranger shouldn't be able to place more than one of the same type of trap (2 barbed traps) within in the area range of one another. The individual traps should be improved. I don't think traps will ever be anything more than rather niche though which is fine.

Expertise should lower the recharge of nature spirits, legit.

Rangers where first m8, and they have a ton of agility and speed themed skills. They were concepted as the agile class before the assasin came along and mad the whole concept ninja. Rangers are swift, assassins are acrobatic with ninja tricks.

ensoriki · Feb 26, 2011, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Being first doesn't mean anything at all.
Their called agile and wily, agile having 2 definitions one relating to movement and the other referring to the mind. Considering it was used right before wily, I'd assume the description of the ranger says they are quick minded cunning individuals. Not speedsters. Not a lot of discussion is needed for this, either when they said rangers are agile they meant in the mobile sense or they were talking with their mind which fits in rather well in the context in my opinion.

Regardless swift is directly used to refer to the assassin, not the ranger, so that's the end of that.

Del · Feb 26, 2011, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Being first doesn't mean anything at all.
Their[sic] called agile and wily, agile having 2 definitions one relating to movement and the other referring to the mind. Considering it was used right before wily, I'd assume the description of the ranger says they are quick minded cunning individuals. Not speedsters. Not a lot of discussion is needed for this, either when they said rangers are agile they meant in the mobile sense or they were talking with their mind which fits in rather well in the context in my opinion.

Except that saying agile refers to rangers mentally, just because t was used just before wily, makes about as much sense as saying someone's mind is fat, just because someone described them as fat and stupid. Agile isn't an adjective that applies to anyone's mind. Quick, sharp, etc, do, but agile simply refers to physical movement.

ensoriki · Feb 26, 2011, 08:09 PM // 20:09

How about we use a dictionary instead of wikipedia.
Also it's not the same situation.

Quote:

World English Dictionary
— adj
1. quick in movement; nimble
2. mentally quick or acute
[C15: from Latin agilis, from agere to do, act]

'agilely

— adv

agility

— n

Your "fat and stupid" line doesn't work. Im saying in the context used it appears that they are using 2 words to describe the mind. As agile can mean that you are quick witted, and wily means that you are cunning. Hardly the same as Fat and stupid meaning you have...a fat brain? Wtf? Your example doesn't make sense.

Swift can also mean that you are cunning. Though it has greater support in describing the assassins speed because the manuscripts put emphasis on the assassins presence and their evasion.
"nowhere and everywhere all at once" "prefer to avoid damage by not being there when the enemy's strike lands". There is greater emphasis on Assassin mobility than Rangers, which should be enough to understand my point.

Ugh · Feb 26, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

If Escape was given megaspeed, it would probably have to have a longer recharge so a ranged class isn't shittons faster than everything all the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Being first doesn't mean anything at all.
Their called agile and wily, agile having 2 definitions one relating to movement and the other referring to the mind. Considering it was used right before wily, I'd assume the description of the ranger says they are quick minded cunning individuals. Not speedsters. Not a lot of discussion is needed for this, either when they said rangers are agile they meant in the mobile sense or they were talking with their mind which fits in rather well in the context in my opinion.

Regardless swift is directly used to refer to the assassin, not the ranger, so that's the end of that.

Okay, no one uses agile to refer to the mind. Ever. Seriously. And it would be redundant if "wily" followed it, so that makes it even less likely, tbh.

Also, this is a stupid argument for several reasons.

Del · Feb 26, 2011, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Your "fat and stupid" line doesn't work. Im saying in the context used it appears that they are using 2 words to describe the mind. As agile can mean that you are quick witted, and wily means that you are cunning. Hardly the same as Fat and stupid meaning you have...a fat brain? Wtf? Your example doesn't make sense.

I Didn't say calling someone's mind fat made sense, i said your statement that saying someone's mind is agile just because it came before wily makes about as much sense and saying someone's mind is fat just because they were called fat and stupid. I.E. It doesn't make sense. Nobody uses agile to refer to the mind these days, that shit's archaic. Looks like your mind isn't quite so agile today.

ensoriki · Feb 26, 2011, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Even so it wouldn't change what the point of my argument.
Rangers were described Agile and wily, even if Agile is referring to speed.
The assassin is also called Swift, evasive tactics were well implied by the manuscript, and then theres the whole Shadowstep situation.
So I don't see how Rangers are supposed to be the fastest at all.

Ugh · Feb 26, 2011, 08:28 PM // 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Even so it wouldn't change what the point of my argument.
Rangers were described Agile and wily, even if Agile is referring to speed.
The assassin is also called Swift, evasive tactics were well implied by the manuscript, and then theres the whole Shadowstep situation.
So I don't see how Rangers are supposed to be the fastest at all.

Balancing the game based on some random, vague sentences written years ago would be retarded, so the point of your argument is nonexistent. Most of that stuff doesn't even apply anymore. It makes sense for a ranger to be quick and for a skill called "Escape" to be used to escape things.

More importantly, that escape buff was a random, out-of-the-ass suggestion that won't happen, so we shouldn't even be discussing it.

ensoriki · Feb 26, 2011, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I wasn't talking about balancing merely that it made "sense" in the way described.

FyrFytr998 · Feb 26, 2011, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The return of the original Otyugh's Cry ... It wasn't even elite, and, if I remember correctly, had the secondary (primary) effect of increasing the AL of all allied pets ... and still nobody thought it was useful. The problem with wildlife is/was that their level is too low to have any meaningfull impact.

Totally forgot about that. Maybe make the animals levels on par with the enemies in the area?

I guess reworking the preparations would be the most worthwhile thing. A longer duration prep and shorter activation time, would make keeping conditions on a foe easier. I had always thought they should have had a tear gas type AoE preparation that caused blindness with each shot like Ignite Arrows. Just that alone would make me play my ranger outside of ZE again.

Dust Tip Arrows: Preparation, 25e, 3/4cast, 45recharge - For 45 seconds your arrows explode on contact causing blindness for 3 to 7 seconds to target and foes adjacent to target.

That's what would make me a happy ranger.